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Science Fiction » alt.startrek » [NEWS] - Berman Not Part Of Trek 11
[NEWS] - Berman Not Part Of Trek 11 [message #249018] Mo, 24 April 2006 15:44
Notifier Deamon  
Post removed (X-No-Archive: yes)
Re: [NEWS] - Berman Not Part Of Trek 11 [message #249019 ] Mo, 24 April 2006 16:14
Jaxtraw  
Stan Jensen wrote:
> Berman Not Part Of Trek 11
>
> Longtime Star Trek writer and producer Rick Berman, who joined the
> franchise at the feet of creator Gene Roddenberry, will not be
> involved in the proposed 11th Trek film, to be directed by Mission:
> Impossible III helmer J.J. Abrams, SCI FI Wire has learned.
>
> A Paramount spokesperson confirmed that Berman-who started with Trek
> under Roddenberry in 1987 as a writer and producer on TV's Star Trek:
> The Next Generation - -would not take part in Abrams' film. "J.J. is
> also a producer, and Rick Berman is not involved in any way," the
> representative confirmed over the weekend.
>
> It will mark the first time that a Trek project has not had Berman's
> creative input in more than 18 years. Berman produced and co-wrote the
> last four films and co-created the TV series Star Trek: Enterprise,
> Star Trek: Voyager and Star Trek: Deep Space Nine; he also wrote,
> contributed story ideas to or produced all Trek incarnations since the
> original series. Berman's last film, Star Trek: Nemesis, tanked at the
> box office, and Berman's last series, Enterprise, was canceled by UPN
> after only four seasons because of poor ratings.
>
> The new Trek film will be written by Abrams and his M:I III writers
> Roberto Orci and Alex Kurtzman, who worked with Abrams on the Alias
> series. The new Trek film will reportedly go back to the first meeting
> of James T. Kirk and Spock at Starfleet Academy and deal with their
> first missions into space. Orci and Kurtzman previously wrote for TV's
> Xena: Warrior Princess and co-wrote the films The Legend of Zorro, The
> Island and the upcoming Transformers: The Movie.
>
> Berman has previously said he wasn't sure about the future of the Star
> Trek franchise, but always hoped to revive and be involved in the
> franchise somehow.

Not relevant, I guess, but I wonder what type of uniforms and production
design we'll see. If they've got any sense they'll go back to bright colours
and TOS style. But my guess is they'll try to do something cool and put
everybody in black or something.

I think this is going to be shit. A silly action movie that's only Trek in
that it contains nominally, but otherwise unrecognisably, character names
from the series.

Really, I'm just sick of this whole idea of prequels. Prequels are a rubbish
idea. Let's stop boldly going backwards in time, and just give the whole
damned thing a rest until there's a hunger for it again.

Ian

--
Re: [NEWS] - Berman Not Part Of Trek 11 [message #249022 ] Mo, 24 April 2006 18:15
EvilBill  
Jaxtraw wrote:
> Stan Jensen wrote:
>> Berman Not Part Of Trek 11
>>
>> Longtime Star Trek writer and producer Rick Berman, who joined the
>> franchise at the feet of creator Gene Roddenberry, will not be
>> involved in the proposed 11th Trek film, to be directed by Mission:
>> Impossible III helmer J.J. Abrams, SCI FI Wire has learned.
>>
>> A Paramount spokesperson confirmed that Berman-who started with Trek
>> under Roddenberry in 1987 as a writer and producer on TV's Star Trek:
>> The Next Generation - -would not take part in Abrams' film. "J.J. is
>> also a producer, and Rick Berman is not involved in any way," the
>> representative confirmed over the weekend.
>>
>> It will mark the first time that a Trek project has not had Berman's
>> creative input in more than 18 years. Berman produced and co-wrote
>> the last four films and co-created the TV series Star Trek:
>> Enterprise, Star Trek: Voyager and Star Trek: Deep Space Nine; he
>> also wrote, contributed story ideas to or produced all Trek
>> incarnations since the original series. Berman's last film, Star
>> Trek: Nemesis, tanked at the box office, and Berman's last series,
>> Enterprise, was canceled by UPN after only four seasons because of
>> poor ratings.
>>
>> The new Trek film will be written by Abrams and his M:I III writers
>> Roberto Orci and Alex Kurtzman, who worked with Abrams on the Alias
>> series. The new Trek film will reportedly go back to the first
>> meeting of James T. Kirk and Spock at Starfleet Academy and deal
>> with their first missions into space. Orci and Kurtzman previously
>> wrote for TV's Xena: Warrior Princess and co-wrote the films The
>> Legend of Zorro, The Island and the upcoming Transformers: The Movie.
>>
>> Berman has previously said he wasn't sure about the future of the
>> Star Trek franchise, but always hoped to revive and be involved in
>> the franchise somehow.
>
> Not relevant, I guess, but I wonder what type of uniforms and
> production design we'll see. If they've got any sense they'll go back
> to bright colours and TOS style. But my guess is they'll try to do
> something cool and put everybody in black or something.
>
> I think this is going to be shit. A silly action movie that's only
> Trek in that it contains nominally, but otherwise unrecognisably,
> character names from the series.
>
> Really, I'm just sick of this whole idea of prequels. Prequels are a
> rubbish idea. Let's stop boldly going backwards in time, and just
> give the whole damned thing a rest until there's a hunger for it
> again.
>
> Ian

Or do a DS9 follow-up movie to close some of the loose ends.

Like whether Bajor ever *will* join the Federation. <g>

--
--
"I hope you don't object to my badgering the witless!"

EvilBill - http://www.evilbill.org.uk
yahoo: evilbill_agqx
Re: [NEWS] - Berman Not Part Of Trek 11 [message #249023 ] Mo, 24 April 2006 18:46
Kweeg  
"Jaxtraw" <jax [at] knickersjaxtrawstudios.com> wrote in message
news:444cdc14$0$211$db0fefd9 [at] news.zen.co.uk...
> Stan Jensen wrote:
> > Berman Not Part Of Trek 11
> >
> > Longtime Star Trek writer and producer Rick Berman, who joined the
> > franchise at the feet of creator Gene Roddenberry, will not be
> > involved in the proposed 11th Trek film, to be directed by Mission:
> > Impossible III helmer J.J. Abrams, SCI FI Wire has learned.
> >
> > A Paramount spokesperson confirmed that Berman-who started with Trek
> > under Roddenberry in 1987 as a writer and producer on TV's Star Trek:
> > The Next Generation - -would not take part in Abrams' film. "J.J. is
> > also a producer, and Rick Berman is not involved in any way," the
> > representative confirmed over the weekend.
> >
> > It will mark the first time that a Trek project has not had Berman's
> > creative input in more than 18 years. Berman produced and co-wrote the
> > last four films and co-created the TV series Star Trek: Enterprise,
> > Star Trek: Voyager and Star Trek: Deep Space Nine; he also wrote,
> > contributed story ideas to or produced all Trek incarnations since the
> > original series. Berman's last film, Star Trek: Nemesis, tanked at the
> > box office, and Berman's last series, Enterprise, was canceled by UPN
> > after only four seasons because of poor ratings.
> >
> > The new Trek film will be written by Abrams and his M:I III writers
> > Roberto Orci and Alex Kurtzman, who worked with Abrams on the Alias
> > series. The new Trek film will reportedly go back to the first meeting
> > of James T. Kirk and Spock at Starfleet Academy and deal with their
> > first missions into space. Orci and Kurtzman previously wrote for TV's
> > Xena: Warrior Princess and co-wrote the films The Legend of Zorro, The
> > Island and the upcoming Transformers: The Movie.
> >
> > Berman has previously said he wasn't sure about the future of the Star
> > Trek franchise, but always hoped to revive and be involved in the
> > franchise somehow.
>
> Not relevant, I guess, but I wonder what type of uniforms and production
> design we'll see. If they've got any sense they'll go back to bright
colours
> and TOS style. But my guess is they'll try to do something cool and put
> everybody in black or something.
<snip>

The cadet uniforms -should- be something like this:
http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Image:Finnegan.jpg

But who's to say what the instructors would be wearing, should probably be
Pike-sque somewhat muted gold or blue, but then again we are talking
Starfleet that totally changes the style of their uniforms every other month
for no rhyme or reason, other than a costume designer's whim.
--

Qapla'
Kweeg
Ten of Canadian Clubs in the Eeeevil Trek Cabal
http://members.shaw.ca/iksbloodoath
"Half a gallon a'scotch!" Scotty (Spectre of the Gun)
1,079,252,848.8 km/h, not just a good idea, it's the law.
"So say we all!"
Re: [NEWS] - Berman Not Part Of Trek 11 [message #249024 ] Mo, 24 April 2006 19:40
TaKYoNtheKoRRuPT  
Jaxtraw wrote:
> Stan Jensen wrote:
>> Berman Not Part Of Trek 11
>>
>> Longtime Star Trek writer and producer Rick Berman, who joined the
>> franchise at the feet of creator Gene Roddenberry, will not be
>> involved in the proposed 11th Trek film, to be directed by Mission:
>> Impossible III helmer J.J. Abrams, SCI FI Wire has learned.
>>
>> A Paramount spokesperson confirmed that Berman-who started with Trek
>> under Roddenberry in 1987 as a writer and producer on TV's Star Trek:
>> The Next Generation - -would not take part in Abrams' film. "J.J. is
>> also a producer, and Rick Berman is not involved in any way," the
>> representative confirmed over the weekend.
>>
>> It will mark the first time that a Trek project has not had Berman's
>> creative input in more than 18 years. Berman produced and co-wrote
>> the last four films and co-created the TV series Star Trek:
>> Enterprise, Star Trek: Voyager and Star Trek: Deep Space Nine; he
>> also wrote, contributed story ideas to or produced all Trek
>> incarnations since the original series. Berman's last film, Star
>> Trek: Nemesis, tanked at the box office, and Berman's last series,
>> Enterprise, was canceled by UPN after only four seasons because of
>> poor ratings.
>>
>> The new Trek film will be written by Abrams and his M:I III writers
>> Roberto Orci and Alex Kurtzman, who worked with Abrams on the Alias
>> series. The new Trek film will reportedly go back to the first
>> meeting of James T. Kirk and Spock at Starfleet Academy and deal
>> with their first missions into space. Orci and Kurtzman previously
>> wrote for TV's Xena: Warrior Princess and co-wrote the films The
>> Legend of Zorro, The Island and the upcoming Transformers: The Movie.
>>
>> Berman has previously said he wasn't sure about the future of the
>> Star Trek franchise, but always hoped to revive and be involved in
>> the franchise somehow.
>
> Not relevant, I guess, but I wonder what type of uniforms and
> production design we'll see. If they've got any sense they'll go back
> to bright colours and TOS style. But my guess is they'll try to do
> something cool and put everybody in black or something.
>
> I think this is going to be shit. A silly action movie that's only
> Trek in that it contains nominally, but otherwise unrecognisably,
> character names from the series.
>
> Really, I'm just sick of this whole idea of prequels. Prequels are a
> rubbish idea. Let's stop boldly going backwards in time, and just
> give the whole damned thing a rest until there's a hunger for it
> again.
>
> Ian

I concur, this is going to be bollocks. Each series and film should follow
a progressive timeline, the Trek universe is very well laid out and
continuity has to be followed. Enterprise fucked up on several occasions
with the continuity.

--
TaKYoNtheKoRRuPT
http://www.takyon.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/
"Talent does what it can; Genius does what it must."
Re: [NEWS] - Berman Not Part Of Trek 11 [message #249025 ] Mo, 24 April 2006 21:38
Joe Cool  
On Mon, 24 Apr 2006 15:14:22 +0100, "Jaxtraw"
<jax [at] knickersjaxtrawstudios.com> wrote:

>Stan Jensen wrote:
>> Berman Not Part Of Trek 11
>>
>> Longtime Star Trek writer and producer Rick Berman, who joined the
>> franchise at the feet of creator Gene Roddenberry, will not be
>> involved in the proposed 11th Trek film, to be directed by Mission:
>> Impossible III helmer J.J. Abrams, SCI FI Wire has learned.
>>
>> A Paramount spokesperson confirmed that Berman-who started with Trek
>> under Roddenberry in 1987 as a writer and producer on TV's Star Trek:
>> The Next Generation - -would not take part in Abrams' film. "J.J. is
>> also a producer, and Rick Berman is not involved in any way," the
>> representative confirmed over the weekend.
>>
>> It will mark the first time that a Trek project has not had Berman's
>> creative input in more than 18 years. Berman produced and co-wrote the
>> last four films and co-created the TV series Star Trek: Enterprise,
>> Star Trek: Voyager and Star Trek: Deep Space Nine; he also wrote,
>> contributed story ideas to or produced all Trek incarnations since the
>> original series. Berman's last film, Star Trek: Nemesis, tanked at the
>> box office, and Berman's last series, Enterprise, was canceled by UPN
>> after only four seasons because of poor ratings.
>>
>> The new Trek film will be written by Abrams and his M:I III writers
>> Roberto Orci and Alex Kurtzman, who worked with Abrams on the Alias
>> series. The new Trek film will reportedly go back to the first meeting
>> of James T. Kirk and Spock at Starfleet Academy and deal with their
>> first missions into space. Orci and Kurtzman previously wrote for TV's
>> Xena: Warrior Princess and co-wrote the films The Legend of Zorro, The
>> Island and the upcoming Transformers: The Movie.
>>
>> Berman has previously said he wasn't sure about the future of the Star
>> Trek franchise, but always hoped to revive and be involved in the
>> franchise somehow.
>
>Not relevant, I guess, but I wonder what type of uniforms and production
>design we'll see. If they've got any sense they'll go back to bright colours
>and TOS style. But my guess is they'll try to do something cool and put
>everybody in black or something.
>
>I think this is going to be shit. A silly action movie that's only Trek in
>that it contains nominally, but otherwise unrecognisably, character names
>from the series.
>
>Really, I'm just sick of this whole idea of prequels. Prequels are a rubbish
>idea. Let's stop boldly going backwards in time, and just give the whole
>damned thing a rest until there's a hunger for it again.
>
>Ian

While I kinda liked ST:E, I agree with your opinion on the
entertaining value of prequels.
Re: [NEWS] - Berman Not Part Of Trek 11 [message #249026 ] Mo, 24 April 2006 21:39
Joe Cool  
On Mon, 24 Apr 2006 17:15:34 +0100, "EvilBill" <quake2lives [at] gmail.com>
wrote:

>Jaxtraw wrote:
>> Stan Jensen wrote:
>>> Berman Not Part Of Trek 11
>>>
>>> Longtime Star Trek writer and producer Rick Berman, who joined the
>>> franchise at the feet of creator Gene Roddenberry, will not be
>>> involved in the proposed 11th Trek film, to be directed by Mission:
>>> Impossible III helmer J.J. Abrams, SCI FI Wire has learned.
>>>
>>> A Paramount spokesperson confirmed that Berman-who started with Trek
>>> under Roddenberry in 1987 as a writer and producer on TV's Star Trek:
>>> The Next Generation - -would not take part in Abrams' film. "J.J. is
>>> also a producer, and Rick Berman is not involved in any way," the
>>> representative confirmed over the weekend.
>>>
>>> It will mark the first time that a Trek project has not had Berman's
>>> creative input in more than 18 years. Berman produced and co-wrote
>>> the last four films and co-created the TV series Star Trek:
>>> Enterprise, Star Trek: Voyager and Star Trek: Deep Space Nine; he
>>> also wrote, contributed story ideas to or produced all Trek
>>> incarnations since the original series. Berman's last film, Star
>>> Trek: Nemesis, tanked at the box office, and Berman's last series,
>>> Enterprise, was canceled by UPN after only four seasons because of
>>> poor ratings.
>>>
>>> The new Trek film will be written by Abrams and his M:I III writers
>>> Roberto Orci and Alex Kurtzman, who worked with Abrams on the Alias
>>> series. The new Trek film will reportedly go back to the first
>>> meeting of James T. Kirk and Spock at Starfleet Academy and deal
>>> with their first missions into space. Orci and Kurtzman previously
>>> wrote for TV's Xena: Warrior Princess and co-wrote the films The
>>> Legend of Zorro, The Island and the upcoming Transformers: The Movie.
>>>
>>> Berman has previously said he wasn't sure about the future of the
>>> Star Trek franchise, but always hoped to revive and be involved in
>>> the franchise somehow.
>>
>> Not relevant, I guess, but I wonder what type of uniforms and
>> production design we'll see. If they've got any sense they'll go back
>> to bright colours and TOS style. But my guess is they'll try to do
>> something cool and put everybody in black or something.
>>
>> I think this is going to be shit. A silly action movie that's only
>> Trek in that it contains nominally, but otherwise unrecognisably,
>> character names from the series.
>>
>> Really, I'm just sick of this whole idea of prequels. Prequels are a
>> rubbish idea. Let's stop boldly going backwards in time, and just
>> give the whole damned thing a rest until there's a hunger for it
>> again.
>>
>> Ian
>
>Or do a DS9 follow-up movie to close some of the loose ends.
>
>Like whether Bajor ever *will* join the Federation. <g>
>
>--

There are literally dozens of potential story lines with a basis in
ST:DS9.
Re: [NEWS] - Berman Not Part Of Trek 11 [message #249027 ] Mo, 24 April 2006 21:41
Notifier Deamon  
Post removed (X-No-Archive: yes)
Re: [NEWS] - Berman Not Part Of Trek 11 [message #249029 ] Di, 25 April 2006 01:10
David A McIntee  
"Stan Jensen" <spam [at] wonderful.spam> wrote

Writers of The Island?

Eep.


--
Redemption 07 - B5 B7 and Beyond, 23-25 February 2007.
http://www.smof.com/redemption

"Shiny- Let's be bad guys..." [Jayne Cobb]

http://lonemagpie.livejournal.com
Re: [NEWS] - Berman Not Part Of Trek 11 [message #249030 ] Di, 25 April 2006 01:58
Anybody  
In article <Xns97AF9574ADE2C19knightofneon20 [at] 216.196.97.136>, Neon
Knight <none [at] none.net> wrote:

> Stan Jensen <spam [at] wonderful.spam> wrote in
> news:iflp42h3g3tliqnh407td9fhomfmke3pe9 [at] 4ax.com:
>
> > Berman has previously said he wasn't sure about the future of the Star
> > Trek franchise, but always hoped to revive and be involved in the
> > franchise somehow.
>
> Hey Rick, maybe if you ask nicely, JJ Abrams will let you wipe his ass
> from time to time.

And what's on that piece of paper will still be infinitely better than
any of Berman's ideas. :-)
Re: [NEWS] - Berman Not Part Of Trek 11 [message #249031 ] Di, 25 April 2006 02:00
Anybody  
In article <iflp42h3g3tliqnh407td9fhomfmke3pe9 [at] 4ax.com>, Stan Jensen
<spam [at] wonderful.spam> wrote:

> Berman Not Part Of Trek 11
<snip>

YIPPEE!! YAHOO!!! YEAH!! WOO-HOO!!! YEEHARR!!!

Party time! Party time!

{Does the Happy dance}



Now, hopefully the other twit has been given the push as well.
Re: [NEWS] - Berman Not Part Of Trek 11 [message #249032 ] Di, 25 April 2006 02:18
Jaxtraw  
Anybody wrote:
> In article <Xns97AF9574ADE2C19knightofneon20 [at] 216.196.97.136>, Neon
> Knight <none [at] none.net> wrote:
>
>> Stan Jensen <spam [at] wonderful.spam> wrote in
>> news:iflp42h3g3tliqnh407td9fhomfmke3pe9 [at] 4ax.com:
>>
>>> Berman has previously said he wasn't sure about the future of the
>>> Star Trek franchise, but always hoped to revive and be involved in
>>> the franchise somehow.
>>
>> Hey Rick, maybe if you ask nicely, JJ Abrams will let you wipe his
>> ass from time to time.
>
> And what's on that piece of paper will still be infinitely better than
> any of Berman's ideas. :-)

What are you talking about? That IS how Berman writes...

--
Re: [NEWS] - Berman Not Part Of Trek 11 [message #249036 ] Di, 25 April 2006 15:45
Mirror Spock  
On Mon, 24 Apr 2006 16:46:30 GMT, "Kweeg" <kweeg [at] nospam.shaw.ca>
wrote:

>"Jaxtraw" <jax [at] knickersjaxtrawstudios.com> wrote in message
>news:444cdc14$0$211$db0fefd9 [at] news.zen.co.uk...
>> Stan Jensen wrote:
>> > Berman Not Part Of Trek 11
>> >
>> > Longtime Star Trek writer and producer Rick Berman, who joined the
>> > franchise at the feet of creator Gene Roddenberry, will not be
>> > involved in the proposed 11th Trek film, to be directed by Mission:
>> > Impossible III helmer J.J. Abrams, SCI FI Wire has learned.
>> >
>> > A Paramount spokesperson confirmed that Berman-who started with Trek
>> > under Roddenberry in 1987 as a writer and producer on TV's Star Trek:
>> > The Next Generation - -would not take part in Abrams' film. "J.J. is
>> > also a producer, and Rick Berman is not involved in any way," the
>> > representative confirmed over the weekend.
>> >
>> > It will mark the first time that a Trek project has not had Berman's
>> > creative input in more than 18 years. Berman produced and co-wrote the
>> > last four films and co-created the TV series Star Trek: Enterprise,
>> > Star Trek: Voyager and Star Trek: Deep Space Nine; he also wrote,
>> > contributed story ideas to or produced all Trek incarnations since the
>> > original series. Berman's last film, Star Trek: Nemesis, tanked at the
>> > box office, and Berman's last series, Enterprise, was canceled by UPN
>> > after only four seasons because of poor ratings.
>> >
>> > The new Trek film will be written by Abrams and his M:I III writers
>> > Roberto Orci and Alex Kurtzman, who worked with Abrams on the Alias
>> > series. The new Trek film will reportedly go back to the first meeting
>> > of James T. Kirk and Spock at Starfleet Academy and deal with their
>> > first missions into space. Orci and Kurtzman previously wrote for TV's
>> > Xena: Warrior Princess and co-wrote the films The Legend of Zorro, The
>> > Island and the upcoming Transformers: The Movie.
>> >
>> > Berman has previously said he wasn't sure about the future of the Star
>> > Trek franchise, but always hoped to revive and be involved in the
>> > franchise somehow.
>>
>> Not relevant, I guess, but I wonder what type of uniforms and production
>> design we'll see. If they've got any sense they'll go back to bright
>colours
>> and TOS style. But my guess is they'll try to do something cool and put
>> everybody in black or something.
><snip>
>
>The cadet uniforms -should- be something like this:
>http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Image:Finnegan.jpg
>
>But who's to say what the instructors would be wearing, should probably be
>Pike-sque somewhat muted gold or blue, but then again we are talking
>Starfleet that totally changes the style of their uniforms every other month
>for no rhyme or reason, other than a costume designer's whim.

Of course, they won't do that at all...

* Robinson
Re: [NEWS] - Berman Not Part Of Trek 11 [message #249037 ] Di, 25 April 2006 16:46
Kweeg  
"Mirror Spock" <robins80 [at] msu.edu> wrote in message
news:ou9s42d9dpruaarvctpo20dim46msjubmj [at] 4ax.com...
> On Mon, 24 Apr 2006 16:46:30 GMT, "Kweeg" <kweeg [at] nospam.shaw.ca>
> wrote:
<snip>
> >> Not relevant, I guess, but I wonder what type of uniforms and
production
> >> design we'll see. If they've got any sense they'll go back to bright
> >colours
> >> and TOS style. But my guess is they'll try to do something cool and put
> >> everybody in black or something.
> ><snip>
> >
> >The cadet uniforms -should- be something like this:
> >http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Image:Finnegan.jpg
> >
> >But who's to say what the instructors would be wearing, should probably
be
> >Pike-sque somewhat muted gold or blue, but then again we are talking
> >Starfleet that totally changes the style of their uniforms every other
month
> >for no rhyme or reason, other than a costume designer's whim.
>
> Of course, they won't do that at all...


Do what? Have pike uniforms or go with the Starfleet "norm" and totally
change the style of their uniforms every other month for no rhyme or reason,
other than a costume designer's whim.


--

Qapla'
Kweeg
Ten of Canadian Clubs in the Eeeevil Trek Cabal
http://members.shaw.ca/iksbloodoath
"Half a gallon a'scotch!" Scotty (Spectre of the Gun)
1,079,252,848.8 km/h, not just a good idea, it's the law.
"So say we all!"
Re: [NEWS] - Berman Not Part Of Trek 11 [message #249040 ] Di, 25 April 2006 22:14
Snake  
"TaKYoN" <takyon [at] NOCRAPblueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:f483g.8339$tc.6049 [at] fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
> I concur, this is going to be bollocks. Each series and film should
> follow a progressive timeline, the Trek universe is very well laid out and
> continuity has to be followed. Enterprise fucked up on several occasions
> with the continuity.

Prequels and sequels are Hollywood's management of "risks". There is no
[apparent] risk in going either backwards or (slightly) forwards in time and
(partially) extrapolating situations. This is Hollywoodspeak for "Known
Quantity" - that is, (a) if it worked before we can modify, with minimal
effort, these items and come out with this solution and (b) "we know we have
a market, for it worked before..."

TNG was a /huge/ risk for Paramount financially - again, once you get behind
the camera and examine the business aspect of it, as noted in "behind the
scene" production books, the new paradigm that Paramount pretty much created
for the contracts of the TNG syndication rights was quite unheard of. For
TNG it paid Paramount off handsomely - probably the greatest syndication
income the Hollywood television scene had ever known.

But Hollywood simply cannot guarantee such a performance again...they do not
wish to take the same level of risk. So therefore taking our known
quantities - Kirk, Spock, Picard, Janeway, Sisco et al - and repackaging
them, instead of creating entirely new characters in an entirely new
situation, /appears/ to have both lower risk and greater built-in market.

Of course, your answer hits it right on the head:

Bollocks!

Rubbish in, rubbish out.
Re: [NEWS] - Berman Not Part Of Trek 11 [message #249043 ] Di, 25 April 2006 23:07
Anybody  
"TaKYoN" <takyon [at] NOCRAPblueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:f483g.8339$tc.6049 [at] fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
>
> I concur, this is going to be bollocks. Each series and film should
> follow a progressive timeline, the Trek universe is very well laid out and
> continuity has to be followed. Enterprise fucked up on several occasions
> with the continuity.

ALL the problems with Enterprise were due the two moronic fools in
charge of it having no idea what they're doing. It had nothing to do
with it being a prequel.

Like anything else, a prequel can be done well if the people helming it
actually know what they're doing and are insterested in doing it
properly.

Beavis & Butthead were never actually interested in making "Star Trek"
and were simply trying to boost their own careers by being on a big
name project ... which they failed miserably at since they're both
extremely hopeless (as proven when one of them made their own show
which was quickly cancelled).
Re: [NEWS] - Berman Not Part Of Trek 11 [message #249068 ] Mi, 26 April 2006 14:55
Mirror Spock  
On Tue, 25 Apr 2006 14:46:04 GMT, "Kweeg" <kweeg [at] nospam.shaw.ca>
wrote:

>"Mirror Spock" <robins80 [at] msu.edu> wrote in message
>news:ou9s42d9dpruaarvctpo20dim46msjubmj [at] 4ax.com...
>> On Mon, 24 Apr 2006 16:46:30 GMT, "Kweeg" <kweeg [at] nospam.shaw.ca>
>> wrote:
><snip>
>> >> Not relevant, I guess, but I wonder what type of uniforms and
>production
>> >> design we'll see. If they've got any sense they'll go back to bright
>> >colours
>> >> and TOS style. But my guess is they'll try to do something cool and put
>> >> everybody in black or something.
>> ><snip>
>> >
>> >The cadet uniforms -should- be something like this:
>> >http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Image:Finnegan.jpg
>> >
>> >But who's to say what the instructors would be wearing, should probably
>be
>> >Pike-sque somewhat muted gold or blue, but then again we are talking
>> >Starfleet that totally changes the style of their uniforms every other
>month
>> >for no rhyme or reason, other than a costume designer's whim.
>>
>> Of course, they won't do that at all...
>
>
>Do what? Have pike uniforms or go with the Starfleet "norm" and totally
>change the style of their uniforms every other month for no rhyme or reason,
>other than a costume designer's whim.

Sorry, I meant to say that they would not use the TOS era uniforms at
all.

* Robinson
Re: [NEWS] - Berman Not Part Of Trek 11 [message #249075 ] Mi, 26 April 2006 18:41
Kweeg  
"Mirror Spock" <robins80 [at] msu.edu> wrote in message
news:6dru421ki2f3sgjtoj9bl9kbpv3cb7nkeh [at] 4ax.com...
> On Tue, 25 Apr 2006 14:46:04 GMT, "Kweeg" <kweeg [at] nospam.shaw.ca>
> wrote:
>
> >"Mirror Spock" <robins80 [at] msu.edu> wrote in message
> >news:ou9s42d9dpruaarvctpo20dim46msjubmj [at] 4ax.com...
> >> On Mon, 24 Apr 2006 16:46:30 GMT, "Kweeg" <kweeg [at] nospam.shaw.ca>
> >> wrote:
> ><snip>
> >> >> Not relevant, I guess, but I wonder what type of uniforms and
> >production
> >> >> design we'll see. If they've got any sense they'll go back to bright
> >> >colours
> >> >> and TOS style. But my guess is they'll try to do something cool and
put
> >> >> everybody in black or something.
> >> ><snip>
> >> >
> >> >The cadet uniforms -should- be something like this:
> >> >http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Image:Finnegan.jpg
> >> >
> >> >But who's to say what the instructors would be wearing, should
probably
> >be
> >> >Pike-sque somewhat muted gold or blue, but then again we are talking
> >> >Starfleet that totally changes the style of their uniforms every other
> >month
> >> >for no rhyme or reason, other than a costume designer's whim.
> >>
> >> Of course, they won't do that at all...
> >
> >
> >Do what? Have pike uniforms or go with the Starfleet "norm" and totally
> >change the style of their uniforms every other month for no rhyme or
reason,
> >other than a costume designer's whim.
>
> Sorry, I meant to say that they would not use the TOS era uniforms at
> all.

Probably... but then again that's still a ST tradition to keep changing
uniforms....

--

Qapla'
Kweeg
Ten of Canadian Clubs in the Eeeevil Trek Cabal
http://members.shaw.ca/iksbloodoath
"Half a gallon a'scotch!" Scotty (Spectre of the Gun)
1,079,252,848.8 km/h, not just a good idea, it's the law.
"So say we all!"
Re: [NEWS] - Berman Not Part Of Trek 11 [message #249092 ] Do, 27 April 2006 16:47
George Peatty  
On Wed, 26 Apr 2006 09:07:32 +1200, Anybody <anybody [at] anywhere-anytime.com>
wrote:

>ALL the problems with Enterprise were due the two moronic fools in
>charge of it having no idea what they're doing. It had nothing to do
>with it being a prequel.

>Like anything else, a prequel can be done well if the people helming it
>actually know what they're doing and are insterested in doing it
>properly.

They knew *exactly* what they were doing. What they didn't know was how it
would sit with the hardcore fanbase. But, it was obvious they had a plan
from the start. The arc of Enterprise was to show Archer's crew getting its
sea legs, becoming more and more competent with each passing season, and
this they accomplished. They thought by filling those adventures with
references to TOS - Romulans, Tholians, Andorians, etc - the hardcore
fanbase would watch. They thought also that by bringing the series up to
date for the 21st century - Time wars, Suliban, Future Guy - they would
attract a new audience.

Obviously, they were wrong: Enterprise did not attract new fans, and the
hardcore fanbase rejected their handling of the TOS elements. But, looking
back over the four years of Enterprise, it is very clear what they were
trying to do.

>Beavis & Butthead were never actually interested in making "Star Trek"
>and were simply trying to boost their own careers by being on a big
>name project ... which they failed miserably at since they're both
>extremely hopeless (as proven when one of them made their own show
>which was quickly cancelled).

The jury may be out on Braga, but Berman's career helming Trek has been an
unqualified success: 25 *years* worth of episodes, and millions - perhaps
*billions* of dollars on Paramount's bottom line. As a TV producer he
deserves to be mentioned in the same breath as Aaron Spelling, Jerry
Bruckheimer, and Dick Wolf.











__

This space left blank
*** Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com ***
Re: [NEWS] - Berman Not Part Of Trek 11 [message #249095 ] Do, 27 April 2006 23:15
Anybody  
In article <lll152p0q9vf02o2rval7d13kirfppfhre [at] 4ax.com>, George Peatty
<peattyg47-1230 [at] copper.net> wrote:

> On Wed, 26 Apr 2006 09:07:32 +1200, Anybody <anybody [at] anywhere-anytime.com>
> wrote:
>
> >ALL the problems with Enterprise were due the two moronic fools in
> >charge of it having no idea what they're doing. It had nothing to do
> >with it being a prequel.
>
> >Like anything else, a prequel can be done well if the people helming it
> >actually know what they're doing and are insterested in doing it
> >properly.
>
> They knew *exactly* what they were doing. What they didn't know was how it
> would sit with the hardcore fanbase. But, it was obvious they had a plan
> from the start. The arc of Enterprise was to show Archer's crew getting its
> sea legs, becoming more and more competent with each passing season, and
> this they accomplished. They thought by filling those adventures with
> references to TOS - Romulans, Tholians, Andorians, etc - the hardcore
> fanbase would watch. They thought also that by bringing the series up to
> date for the 21st century - Time wars, Suliban, Future Guy - they would
> attract a new audience.
>
> Obviously, they were wrong: Enterprise did not attract new fans, and the
> hardcore fanbase rejected their handling of the TOS elements. But, looking
> back over the four years of Enterprise, it is very clear what they were
> trying to do.

They had no idea what they were doing - they simply "pee'ed" all over
the established continuity and did whatever the hell they liked.




> >Beavis & Butthead were never actually interested in making "Star Trek"
> >and were simply trying to boost their own careers by being on a big
> >name project ... which they failed miserably at since they're both
> >extremely hopeless (as proven when one of them made their own show
> >which was quickly cancelled).
>
> The jury may be out on Braga, but Berman's career helming Trek has been an
> unqualified success: 25 *years* worth of episodes, and millions - perhaps
> *billions* of dollars on Paramount's bottom line. As a TV producer he
> deserves to be mentioned in the same breath as Aaron Spelling, Jerry
> Bruckheimer, and Dick Wolf.

More like both should be mentioned in the same breath as Hitler and
Gengis Kahn. Preferably both should simply be flushed down the toilet
of history and forgotten about as quickly as possible.
Re: [NEWS] - Berman Not Part Of Trek 11 [message #261499 ] Fr, 05 Mai 2006 19:52
Snake  
"George Peatty" <peattyg47-1230 [at] copper.net> wrote in message
news:lll152p0q9vf02o2rval7d13kirfppfhre [at] 4ax.com...
> On Wed, 26 Apr 2006 09:07:32 +1200, Anybody <anybody [at] anywhere-anytime.com>
> wrote:
>>Beavis & Butthead were never actually interested in making "Star Trek"
>>and were simply trying to boost their own careers by being on a big
>>name project ... which they failed miserably at since they're both
>>extremely hopeless (as proven when one of them made their own show
>>which was quickly cancelled).
>
> The jury may be out on Braga, but Berman's career helming Trek has been an
> unqualified success: 25 *years* worth of episodes, and millions - perhaps
> *billions* of dollars on Paramount's bottom line. As a TV producer he
> deserves to be mentioned in the same breath as Aaron Spelling, Jerry
> Bruckheimer, and Dick Wolf.

That really depends. Berman's helming of Trek at the beginning was
*exactly* that.../helming/. His decisions were great and far-reaching but
in the perfect example of what a television producer should, and should not,
accomplish.

Berman taking control of Star Trek was a Trek fully outfitted with the
creative individuals necessary to make the show function as it stood.
Producers make the money decisions, directors make the creative decisions.
This is the way the Hollywood system works and Berman was brought into Star
Trek because he knew the *business* of television. In that he succeeded.

HOWEVER Berman - **by his own words** - was not and IS not a Star Trek fan.
He is a Hollywood man. When Mr. Berman started taking greater and greater
hand in the everyday creative process beyond the business of keeping the
show running...Star Trek started to founder. BIG TIME. Berman alienated
known Star Trek writers, writers with a history of knowing both the fan base
and the "canon", which in Hollywood-speak is the "Writer's Guide". Some of
them - Fontana - helped write that very guide. It is a known fact that many
known creative entities in the Hollywood business started to get strong cold
shoulders from Berman's treatment of them - and they started leaving. One
well known screenwriter felt so alienated he not only walked away from Star
Trek television but vocalized this to many.

I am babbling but if Berman would have STAYED a producer - in the proper,
classic "producer" mold, then for SURE (a) Trek would have survived and (b)
he would go down as one of the best Hollywood producers around. But Rick
Berman thought he would start playing with the Star Trek pattern, start
rewriting Star Trek to fit his own image.

And everything blew up.

So, as for Berman...no. Regretfully his early, wonderful years of helming
Trek is too strongly offset with his complete heavy-handed /botching/ of
Trek thereafter. And since he both produced and wrote many of the episodes
which sealed Star Trek's long-term fate, the Buck must Stop Here, with him.

Failure, please step forward - your name is Richard B. Berman.
Re: [NEWS] - Berman Not Part Of Trek 11 [message #261500 ] Fr, 05 Mai 2006 20:13
Snake  
"Snake" <fluidstates_NO+SPAM [at] REMOVE-ME.verizon.IHATESPAM.SPAM_VAC.com> wrote
in message news:ohM6g.26$iH5.8 [at] trndny07...

> Failure, please step forward - your name is Richard B. Berman.

Richard K. Berman, sorry. :D

We want it correct on the tombstone. ;-)
Re: [NEWS] - Berman Not Part Of Trek 11 [message #261501 ] Fr, 05 Mai 2006 20:15
Snake  
http://blogcritics.org/archives/2005/04/30/145717.php

hehe
Re: [NEWS] - Berman Not Part Of Trek 11 [message #261503 ] Sa, 06 Mai 2006 00:45
Anybody  
In article <jBM6g.22$U25.11 [at] trndny09>, "Snake"
<fluidstates_NO+SPAM [at] REMOVE-ME.verizon.IHATESPAM.SPAM_VAC.com> wrote:

> "Snake" <fluidstates_NO+SPAM [at] REMOVE-ME.verizon.IHATESPAM.SPAM_VAC.com> wrote
> in message news:ohM6g.26$iH5.8 [at] trndny07...
>
> > Failure, please step forward - your name is Richard B. Berman.
>
> Richard K. Berman, sorry. :D
>
> We want it correct on the tombstone. ;-)

In that case a simple "Idiot 1 of 2" will suffice.
Re: [NEWS] - Berman Not Part Of Trek 11 [message #262186 ] Sa, 06 Mai 2006 09:44
80 Knight  
"Snake" <fluidstates_NO+SPAM [at] REMOVE-ME.verizon.IHATESPAM.SPAM_VAC.com> wrote
in message news:6DM6g.105$Zf3.16 [at] trndny01...
> http://blogcritics.org/archives/2005/04/30/145717.php
>
> hehe

That article is dated over a year ago. And, as for your other post, you
sound like 'Anybody'. I fail to see how Berman's (or Bragga's) death will
bring Trek back, and/or make it better. If that is all you can think about,
then you need a hobby, no offence.
Re: [NEWS] - Berman Not Part Of Trek 11 [message #262193 ] So, 07 Mai 2006 00:26
Snake  
"80 Knight" <80_knightNOSPAMPLEASE [at] rogers.com> wrote in message
news:pvOdnenAOqhuzsHZRVn-uQ [at] giganews.com...
> "Snake" <fluidstates_NO+SPAM [at] REMOVE-ME.verizon.IHATESPAM.SPAM_VAC.com>
> wrote in message news:6DM6g.105$Zf3.16 [at] trndny01...
>> http://blogcritics.org/archives/2005/04/30/145717.php
>>
>> hehe
>
> That article is dated over a year ago. And, as for your other post, you
> sound like 'Anybody'. I fail to see how Berman's (or Bragga's) death will
> bring Trek back, and/or make it better. If that is all you can think
> about, then you need a hobby, no offence.

Heh. I was just being facetious about that death issue, it sounded funny
(to me at least). Sorry if you didn't get the joke - either I didn't
communicate it or your funny bone has been removed ^_^

It's Trek, not the end of the world.

Or is it? :D

;-)

I was on a roll!! Type-written babbling against B&B can be a new art form.
Re: [NEWS] - Berman Not Part Of Trek 11 [message #262194 ] So, 07 Mai 2006 00:30
Snake  
"Anybody" <anybody [at] anywhere-anytime.com> wrote in message
news:060520061126139285%anybody [at] anywhere-anytime.com...
> In article <jBM6g.22$U25.11 [at] trndny09>, "Snake"
> <fluidstates_NO+SPAM [at] REMOVE-ME.verizon.IHATESPAM.SPAM_VAC.com> wrote:
>
>> "Snake" <fluidstates_NO+SPAM [at] REMOVE-ME.verizon.IHATESPAM.SPAM_VAC.com>
>> wrote
>> in message news:ohM6g.26$iH5.8 [at] trndny07...
>>
>> > Failure, please step forward - your name is Richard B. Berman.
>>
>> Richard K. Berman, sorry. :D
>>
>> We want it correct on the tombstone. ;-)
>
> In that case a simple "Idiot 1 of 2" will suffice.

I like it. Simple, direct...and for historical sake, completely anonymous!!
Re: [NEWS] - Berman Not Part Of Trek 11 [message #262197 ] So, 07 Mai 2006 07:49
80 Knight  
"Snake" <fluidstates_NO+SPAM [at] REMOVE-ME.verizon.IHATESPAM.SPAM_VAC.com> wrote
in message news:Lo97g.1040$NB6.338 [at] trndny03...
> "80 Knight" <80_knightNOSPAMPLEASE [at] rogers.com> wrote in message
> news:pvOdnenAOqhuzsHZRVn-uQ [at] giganews.com...
>> "Snake" <fluidstates_NO+SPAM [at] REMOVE-ME.verizon.IHATESPAM.SPAM_VAC.com>
>> wrote in message news:6DM6g.105$Zf3.16 [at] trndny01...
>>> http://blogcritics.org/archives/2005/04/30/145717.php
>>>
>>> hehe
>>
>> That article is dated over a year ago. And, as for your other post, you
>> sound like 'Anybody'. I fail to see how Berman's (or Bragga's) death will
>> bring Trek back, and/or make it better. If that is all you can think
>> about, then you need a hobby, no offence.
>
> Heh. I was just being facetious about that death issue, it sounded funny
> (to me at least). Sorry if you didn't get the joke - either I didn't
> communicate it or your funny bone has been removed ^_^
>
> It's Trek, not the end of the world.
>
> Or is it? :D
>
> ;-)
>
> I was on a roll!! Type-written babbling against B&B can be a new art
> form.

Sorry, my bad. You just reminded me of someone else for a second there.
Re: [NEWS] - Berman Not Part Of Trek 11 [message #263198 ] Mo, 15 Mai 2006 10:25
reddog_x2000  
Re:

ALL the problems with Enterprise were due the two moronic fools in
charge of it having no idea what they're doing. It had nothing to do
with it being a prequel.

I agree, for the most part. B & B had to have known that the franchise
needed a rest after Voyager. If they'd really been on the ball, they'd have
cancelled that series early and come back with Enterprise about now.





"Anybody" <anybody [at] anywhere-anytime.com> wrote in message
news:260420060907321539%anybody [at] anywhere-anytime.com...
> "TaKYoN" <takyon [at] NOCRAPblueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:f483g.8339$tc.6049 [at] fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
>>
>> I concur, this is going to be bollocks. Each series and film should
>> follow a progressive timeline, the Trek universe is very well laid out
>> and
>> continuity has to be followed. Enterprise fucked up on several occasions
>> with the continuity.
>
> ALL the problems with Enterprise were due the two moronic fools in
> charge of it having no idea what they're doing. It had nothing to do
> with it being a prequel.
>
> Like anything else, a prequel can be done well if the people helming it
> actually know what they're doing and are insterested in doing it
> properly.
>
> Beavis & Butthead were never actually interested in making "Star Trek"
> and were simply trying to boost their own careers by being on a big
> name project ... which they failed miserably at since they're both
> extremely hopeless (as proven when one of them made their own show
> which was quickly cancelled).
Re: [NEWS] - Berman Not Part Of Trek 11 [message #263201 ] Mo, 15 Mai 2006 22:59
Anybody  
In article <YVW9g.1062$Oh1.31 [at] news01.roc.ny>, "reddog_x2000"
<reddog_x2000 [at] diespammerdie.yahoo.com> wrote:

> Re:
>
> > ALL the problems with Enterprise were due the two moronic fools in
> > charge of it having no idea what they're doing. It had nothing to do
> > with it being a prequel.
>
> I agree, for the most part. B & B had to have known that the franchise
> needed a rest after Voyager. If they'd really been on the ball, they'd have
> cancelled that series early and come back with Enterprise about now.

Beavis & Butthead simply have absolutely no idea about Star Trek at
all. The ultimate proof (completely unneed by then anyway) was the
insane idea of trying to make Enterprise a "non-Trek Star Trek show".
Re: [NEWS] - Berman Not Part Of Trek 11 [message #263204 ] Mo, 15 Mai 2006 23:42
mullet  
On Tue, 16 May 2006 08:59:52 +1200, Anybody
<anybody [at] anywhere-anytime.com> wrote:

>In article <YVW9g.1062$Oh1.31 [at] news01.roc.ny>, "reddog_x2000"
><reddog_x2000 [at] diespammerdie.yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> Re:
>>
>> > ALL the problems with Enterprise were due the two moronic fools in
>> > charge of it having no idea what they're doing. It had nothing to do
>> > with it being a prequel.
>>
>> I agree, for the most part. B & B had to have known that the franchise
>> needed a rest after Voyager. If they'd really been on the ball, they'd have
>> cancelled that series early and come back with Enterprise about now.
>
>Beavis & Butthead simply have absolutely no idea about Star Trek at
>all. The ultimate proof (completely unneed by then anyway) was the
>insane idea of trying to make Enterprise a "non-Trek Star Trek show".

They succeeded in making a non-Trek show. It indeed literally went
no-where.
Re: [NEWS] - Berman Not Part Of Trek 11 [message #267837 ] Fr, 19 Mai 2006 02:08
Snake  
"Anybody" <anybody [at] anywhere-anytime.com> wrote in message
news:160520060859526256%anybody [at] anywhere-anytime.com...
> In article <YVW9g.1062$Oh1.31 [at] news01.roc.ny>, "reddog_x2000"
> <reddog_x2000 [at] diespammerdie.yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> Re:
>>
>> > ALL the problems with Enterprise were due the two moronic fools in
>> > charge of it having no idea what they're doing. It had nothing to do
>> > with it being a prequel.
>>
>> I agree, for the most part. B & B had to have known that the franchise
>> needed a rest after Voyager. If they'd really been on the ball, they'd
>> have
>> cancelled that series early and come back with Enterprise about now.
>
> Beavis & Butthead simply have absolutely no idea about Star Trek at
> all. The ultimate proof (completely unneed by then anyway) was the
> insane idea of trying to make Enterprise a "non-Trek Star Trek show".

As I have pointed out Berman said in his own words - quotable - that at the
time of taking over Star Trek's helm he knew nothing of Star Trek. Morality
play in entertainment meant nothing to him, the humanistic story basis of
Trek was both meaningless and outside his personal experience. He saw Star
Trek as entertainment - pure, simple and nothing more - and therefore felt
no constraints as long as Star Trek was, in his words, "entertaining". He
had *no*, and I firmly emphasize NO, science fiction interest NOR did he
even consider himself a fan of science fiction in any form...//except// time
travel stories.

His personal favorites.

The interview is either in (a) The New York Times, at the time of
Roddenberry's death or (b) The Star Trek Communicator, shortly after
Roddenberry's death. I have both - the NY Times issue covering the death,
and the Communicator with Berman's interview - but both are packed away in a
storage facility currently.

However...if you wish me to reprint verbatim Berman's own words regarding
science fiction entertainment I will be willing to unbury the data and post
it here.

I have remembered that interview - almost, now, 15 years later - because at
the time I was working with another Star Trek fan. When I read the
interview I came in the next day and said to her "Star Trek is doomed. It
is in the hands of someone who doesn't understand it".

It might have taken 13 or so years for the prophecy to come true but...
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